CST 6/5/06 "Atonement"
on: Saturday 6th May @ 8.30pm [note change of date]
at: Favorit, Teviot Place (view map)
WARNING - mature audiences only! We'll be digging into some pretty foundational stuff for Christians this time, so we must tread lightly! Please pray for the discussion this week.
Picking up on a question over on SFT, we'll be looking into the atonement. Here are some conceptual questions to kick us off:
If God wants to forgive us, why doesn't he just do it?
How does punishing an innocent person (his Son, Jesus Christ) make things better?
Isn't this just "cosmic child abuse" (Steve Chalke)?
And here is a (very brief and selective) guided tour to atonement theories through the ages, with a few questions raised by each theory:
1. Ransom "...the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many..." (Mt 20:28) Through sin humans placed themselves under the authority of Satan. Jesus is the ransom. We are bought free. In the end, of course, God 'double-crosses' Satan by raising Jesus from the dead. God wins all-round.
Q - doesn't this put Satan in control of the situation?
Q - is God just in "tricking" Satan?
Q - why is God making deals with Satan anyway?
2. Penal Substitution "...But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him..." (Is 53:5) I reckon we probably know this one quite well already. God is justly angry at sin. His punishment is placed upon Jesus. As he died, God's holy wrath is satisfied and justice is done.
Q - doesn't this make God a 'slave' to some kind of bigger cosmic law
at work? In that case, shouldn't we be worshipping that law?
Q - is this "cosmic child abuse" (Steve Chalke)?
Q - why doesn't God demonstrate the same forgiveness he demands of us in the Bible and 'just forgive' without needing 'his pound of flesh'?
3. Victory "...he disarmed the principalities and powers... triumphing over them..." (Col 2:14) Our enemies are the powers of sin and death. By entering and overcoming death, Jesus triumphs over them.
Q - why does Jesus have to die to defeat death?
Q - doesn't this idea need some of the others to 'flesh it out'?
4. Moral Influence / Example "...Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example..." (1 Pet 2:21) Jesus' death was necessary to show us the need for repentance. God can 'just forgive' but needs us to repent. Without the cross we wouldn't know what sin was, and wouldn't sincerely repent. God's love demonstrated in the cross touches us and changes us internally ("God's love constrains us" - Paul), so that we want to give ourselves to him.
Q - doesn't Christ's example just make us feel worse?
Q - when we repent, aren't we still just acting in self-interest?
5. The 'Perfect Penitent' God wants to forgive, but we must confess and repent. Sinful man cannot adequately repent (even our repentance is touched by sin), so Jesus intercedes - offering perfect repentance and obtaining forgiveness for us.
Q - how can Jesus perfectly know what it feels like to be a sinner and therefore 'repent' for us?
6. Satisfaction God requires total obedience. Our inability to provide it means that the relationship with God is shattered - and he is dishonoured. Perfect obedience and reparation for the dishonour must come from a man, but only God is capable. Enter the God-man, Jesus. His life and obedience unto death 'satisfy' God's honour.
Q - why does God need his honour to be 'satisfied'? Isn't he above all that?
7. Moral Government The death of Christ upholds God's moral law, demonstrating conclusively to humankind that God is just and morally upright. Jesus' death is not our substitute but God's 'statement' about his moral government.
Q - how, then is sin 'dealt with'?
Q - how are we reconciled?
Running alongside these models are two key notions: Propitiation and Expiation. Briefly, Propitiation is a 'God-ward' concept - Christ's death works by 'appeasing' God or as an 'offering' to God. Expiation is a 'man-ward' or 'sin-ward' idea - Christ's death works by making 'reparation', removing guilt, shame, and sin in us.
OK. Plenty to chew on. See you there!
J
3 Comments:
Hi all, i'm the inquisitive individual ( who appears to have become known as 'nut's friend) who started this discussion. just wanted to say i'll be away this saturday on a stag weekend (where i plan to carry out my own form of penal retribution by way of a large weapon filled with paint pellets) so won't be able to make the discussion but i'm looking forward to catching up on the content at a later date.
OK. well, there's a couple of other people who can't make it - so I think we'll push it to the following Saturday, 6th May.
Hi, I'm so sorry I couldnt make this discussion hope it was a good one.
I'm in next time tho!
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